From: tierce@my-dejanews.com (tierce@my-dejanews.com) Subject: (RST3K) Re: ST is better, More of Piett's ranting. Newsgroups: alt.startrek.vs.starwars Date: 1999/01/15 ------------------------------------------------------------- In article , he791859@merlin.uqam.ca (PAUL JACQUES H.JR) wrote: > Andrew Muir (lgpiett@hotmail.com) wrote: > > Weee, more of Paul's bullshit. > > More ranting from the PA'TAK! Leia: Another one of Paul's posts. If this keeps up, I'll turn to the Dark Side. Threepio: We should at least start reading other people's post, like Elim Garek for instance. Han: (pulls out his blaster) I swear, I'll shot you for saying that, goldenrod. Artoo pulls out his zapper manipulator and aims towards Han, and Jacen ignites his lightsaber to take a swing at Artoo. Bel Iblis, in a rage, gets up to tackle Jacen, but Chewie knocks him down. Gaerial: (screeches in a high voice) Hey! Don't you see what's happening. We're turning against each other. We can't let this happen. If we can't keep ourselves from turning on each then we may as well call Starfleet and tell them they won! Everyone removes themselve from their combat stance and sits down. Han: Say Gaerial, you pretty good at being the voice of reason. I'm sorry Threepio. Threepio: I'm sorry too. Artoo beeps. Mon Montha: Can we hold it with the apoligizies for now. We'll all be sorry enough once this post is over. > > PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message > > <_c0n2.11919$dB4.373500@carnaval.risq.qc.ca>... > > >Andrew Muir (lgpiett@hotmail.com) wrote: > > >> > > >> > Okay take into consideration a Sovreign class vessel vs an ISD or ImpStar > > >> >Duce, I think that the Enterprise-E could take out either of these ships, > > >> > > >> Incorrect. If you look at the figures we have, you'll see that a > > >> Sovereign-class ship would have its hands full with a VSD from SW. SW > > >> weaponry is an order of magnitude stronger than ST weaponry. > > > > > >I don't think so! A fighter destroyed the DS in ANH. > > > > Has nothing to do with weapon power. > > The original thread said: 'pretty fair fight actually'. So maneuverability is > an important factor in a fight between ships. Ackbar: Let's review. For those who are just tuning in. Lando: Piett, made the statement that SW weapons are better. Leia: Paul, replies with the fact that an X-Wing destroyed. Luke: Piett, says that this has nothing to do with weapon power. Wedge: So basically, Paul changes the subject to manueverability. Callista: in other words... Paul doesn't what Piett was talking about. Ackbar: Bingo! > > >So a torpedo sent by the Enterprise-E in the exhaust port would do the > > >same. > > > > Incorrect. The port is only 2m, and the torpedo is much larger after it is > > fired. It'd impact on the surface. > > Remember! Runabouts have mini torpedos. So if the opening is as small > as you claim then the Enterprise-D will use them. Luke: Something is missing. Obi-Wan: The thing that is missing is proof. Talon: Like proof that the Enterprise-D can use mini-torps. > > > The MF manage to escape against several ISDs in TEB. > > > > Has nothing to do with weapon power. > > The original thread said: 'pretty fair fight actually'. So MANEUVERABILITY is > an important factor in a fight betwwen ships. Jaina: And if wishes were fishes, Paul would be a Genie! Han: Huh? Jacen: With all the red-herrings he throws all the time. Han: Oh, I get it now. > > So the > > >Defiant could do the same. > > > > Incredibly incorrect leap of faith. The Defiant is 5 times the length of > > the Falcon. The Defiant has ST shields and weaponry, which won't stand up > > to their SW counterparts. > > That is dumb! We know the Enterprise-D is 600 m. We know also the orginal > Enterprise is 8 times smaller than the Enterprise-D. That puts it at: 75m. > We know from ST:2 that the Reliant is a bit smaller than the original > Enterprise. We know also in 'Sacrifice of an Angel' that the Defiant is > about the same size as the Reliant class ships. So this puts the > Defiant at 75 m, at least. Wedge: (looking in the DS9 TM) Ahh, here it is. The Defiant is about 170 meters long. Gaeriel: So who's word do we take? Paul's or the TM? Wedge: That's sarcasism, right? Gaeriel: Well, D'uh. > Beside speculation based on dubious evidence > where is the proof that the Defiant shield and weaponry won't stand up? Callista: We've been over this. > > A small rebels fleet prevailed against > > >the DS2, SSD and the ISDs in ROJ. Therefore a Federation fleet using > > >warp and torpedos could do the same. > > > > ROTFLMAO! Thats the worst i've heard from you yet. You see, sadly Paul, > > your "logic" is entirely rhetoric based, and doesn't take into account > > things like "weapons strength", or "battle plans". > > Let see! 'WEAPONS STRENGTH'... If we combine the entire fire power > of the DS2+SSD+ISDs and compare it to the combine fire power of > the rebel fleet. Then it is obvious that the Empire has superior > fire power. The DS2 alone overrides all the rebel fleet in power. > If we do the same for ANH. DS1 fire power compare to the 30 rebel > fighters fire power. The result is the same. In both cases the > Empire has superior WEAPONS STRENGHT. But if we use this as > a benchmark to compare the outcome of a fight then the EVIDENCE > shows that each time the Empire has superior fire power it > loses. Ackbar: Should we mention the 'T' word again. Mon Montha: If he hasn't caught one by now, then he never will. > > >> > Okay on the issue of the borg vs the empire? The Borg would win. I'm sorry > > >> >but the Borg can adapt to anything > > >> > > >> No, they can't. They can't adapt to raw power, > > > > > >That is FALSE. In best of both worlds the Enterprise-D funelled the > > >warp core energy to the main deflector dish. > > > > They adapted because Picard already KNEW about it, dumbass. And the power > > isn't nearly as high as you suggest - in fact, 30% of it decays into useless > > pions and subatmoic garbage. Meaning you'd have only 3E18 joules of the > > original 1E19. And THAT is before the energy goes anywhere else - Data was > > referring to the reaction going on within the Chamber at that time. Because > > a Starship is incapable of funneling anything other than small amounts of > > power to anywhere but the warp core, the systems designed around the > > deflector array would NOT be 3E18 joules. They'd be much, much lower, > > consistent with other power distribution systems. ONLY the Warp Nacelles > > can handle that much energy. The amount coming out to the Cube would've > > been the maximum amount of energy the deflector array could handle. > > It doesn't matter how much you want to rate the power ouptput of the > warp core. The fact REMAINS that the Borg did adapt to raw power. > So claiming they can't is opinion and not fact. > > > Taking the 'True Q' > > >statement: 12.75 Billion of Gigawatts. That represents 12,750,000 TW > > >of raw power that was sent to the Borg ship. Not a scratch on the cube. > > >The cube received the equivalent of 3036 megatons per second. > > >So they CAN adapt to raw power. > > > > No, they can't. Watch "Scorpion" before you go shooting your mouth off. > > Look at Species 8472. > > Species 8472 can combine their ships and destroy a planet. So it is > obvious that their raw power is superior to what the Borg can take. > That doesn't neglect the fact that up to a certain level the > Borg can adapt to raw power. Proof:'Best of both world'. Lando: Okay, let's rephrase the statement: The Borg can't adapt to much raw power. > > >> and they can't adapt to > > >> kinetic energy - as evidenced in "Scorpion" and First Contact. > > > > > >You're right about no evidence. But the Borg did scan the > > >Enterprise-D's technology. We know that the Enterprise-D has > > >kinetic shield. So if it is needed then the Borg will make it. > > > > Bullshit - where was their KE shield in First Contact? In "Scorpion", when > > the debris from the planet destroys the two cubes? It wasn't there; it > > doesn't exist. > > If we use the same ST-THOMAS logic, then I can claim several things like: > > a) The Empire can't mobilize more than 25 capital ships for a > confrontation against an enemy. Proof: ROJ. We haven't seen more > than 25 captial ships in an important fight against the rebels. > Therefore based on the ST-THOMAS logic the Empire can't. Lando: Didn't the Empire design the battle of Endor to be a trap? Ackbar: That's what I remember. Lando: Then what would be the logic of sending so many ships that we could've spotted them lightyears away. Leia: But remember this is ST-THOMAS logic. Not real logic. > b) The guns (not the Superlaser) of both DSs haven't been used > against capital ships. Therefore, based on the ST-THOMAS logic > they don't work against them. Talon: Were their capital ships at Yavin? Luke: Nope. Talon: What abput Endor? Luke: Well, there isn't much detailed footage on the battle of Endor in RotJ! Much of the battle happened off-screen. > c) The Empire can't catch people running away from them. Since > they didn't get the droids in ANH and didn't get the MF in > TESB and stormstroopers didn't get Leia in ROJ, on the Ewok's planet. > Therefore based on the ST-THOMAS logic they can't catch > people running away. Leia: Okay, our turn. Bel Iblis: The Borg can moblize more than one ship in a confrontation against an enemy. Proof, ST:FC and BoBW. Therefore based on ST-THOMAS the Borg can't send more than one ship. Threepio: In 'Cause and Effect', I believe, the Enterprise-D crashed with the USS Bowmen several times. So using ST-THOMAS logic, the Federation can't divert a bad situation even after they seen it, nor can they learn from there mistake, since they used the same tactic over and over. Gaerial: Wait! I got a good one. In 'Yesterday's Enterprise' the Federation was ready to surrender to the Klingons. In 'Way of the Warrior' Klingons can get beaten by a pregent woman. So using ST-THOMAS, the Federation cannot anything stronger than a pregent woman. Lando: You're right that was a good one! Gaerial: Thank you! > > >If they are so stupid then how come thousand to millions of worlds have > > >been assimilated. > > > > Ever heard of "overwhelming numerical superiority"? That is how the Borg > > operate. They throw cube after cube, drone after drone at you. They also > > suffer huge casualties because of it. Their ground combat tactics resemble > > that of WW1 soldiers - get up, walk quickly toward the target in open ground > > with no cover. Their starship tactics resemble stupidity personified - sit > > there and take punishment from all sides. > > Wow! that primitive tactic works??? So how come the Empire didn't do > the same with their TFs in ANH against the rebels? If you consider > the Borg stupid and they use overwhelming numerical superiority to win, > when the Empire having overwhelming numerical superiortity don't use > that method to win. Then, the Empire is more dumb than > the Borg. LOL! Mon Montha: Does Paul know anything about the history of the Empire? Han: I guess not. Luke: Master Kenobi, will you please explain it to them. Jaina, Jacen, take notes too. Obi-Wan: Many years before the rise of the Empire was the Old Republic with was defend by the Jedi Knights. Just watch ANH, you'll hear me say this much. Jaina: What happened to the Old Republic? Obi-Wan: Palpatine crushed it. Jacen: Meaning the Empire was smart enough to defeat the Jedi Knights of the Old Republic. Obi-Wam: Yes. > > >Contrary to the Empire after a defeat the Borg don't > > >create factions to fight each other. > > > > Oh, but they do - watch "Descent", with Lore's Borg. They were certainly > > going to have to fight the Borg when that situation arose. > > Based on the ST-THOMAS logic it didn't happen, Therefore what you stated > is speculation and not fact. Wedge: I thought it did happen. After all, many of Lore's Borg fought each other just to take control of the ship. No, command structure whatsever. Gaerial: We can stop Wedge, it's over. -Major Tierce "Are you kidding? I've been doing the Vulcan death grip since I was four." -Cordelia Chase -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own