From: cglasgow@hotmail.com [IST3K] Re: A shuttle craft vs. an Xwing ------------------------------------------------- (In yesterday's episode, the renegade Mara of Nine, a recently-borged Mara Jade, had just taken Captain Gilad Pellaeon hostage. Our protagonists were locked in a tense stalemate when suddenly...) (A sleek, self-satisfied looking man in an expensive tailored suit beams aboard.) Suited man -- Mara Jade Skywalker? Anakin -- Umm, she's the funny-looking metal lady over there holding the guy by his neck. Mara of Nine -- This unit is Mara of Nine. Identify yourself. Suit -- Mara of Nine? Damn, a legal name change too? Now we're going to have to redo *all* of this paperwork! Anyway, I'm Mr. Dewey of Dewey, Cheatham and Howe, Attorneys At Law. I'm here to serve you with a notice of intent to file for divorce from one Luke Skywalker. Mara of Nine (suddenly betraying human emotion) -- DIVORCE? Luke's doing WHAT? Mr. Dewey -- The reasons listed here are "Allowing oneself to become Borged..." Mara of Nine (looking even more shaken) -- "ALLOWING"? It was done under duress! Daala -- No *kidding* it was under duress! It took half a dozen of us just to hold her down! Mr. Dewey -- "Chronic absenteeism..." "Mara of Nine" (starting to sob) -- Absenteeism? From WHAT? We were a dual- income-no-kids household! We *both* had careers! Guri -- Oh, what a total hypocrite! Men! Mr. Dewey -- "Being a wimp, allowing oneself to be defeated in combat by an HRD assassin droid..." Mara (looking more and more un-Borgish by the second) -- He's ditching me just because I *lost a fight*? This from the man who's gotten captured by Ewoks and had a limb amputated by his own father? What kind of a barbarian is he? Is his idea of a married life a continual trial by combat? Daala -- Especially considering that you kicked *his* tail the first time you two met! Piett -- Maybe Luke's secretly into masochism. If his marriage partner loses the ability to beat him up, it's no longer any fun for him. Tarkin (shudders) -- Disgusting! Pellaeon -- Dark Side rising, what a *creep*! They definitely raise them heartless on Tatooine, I must say! Mr. Dewey -- "... lack of any real intent for a serious relationship upon getting married... coercion by an author, Mr. Zahn..." Mara Jade (having completely un-Borged by now, she releases Pellaeon and collapses to the floor sobbing) -- We WEREN'T married during the first Zahn trilogy! We were barely friends then! Liar, LIAR! (weeping hysterically) He said he loved me... Daala (reaches down to hug Mara and comfort her) -- There, there! You poor woman! Palpatine -- Am I missing something here? Were they not just trying to kill each other? Didn't she just take Admiral Daala's fiancee hostage? Thrawn (shrugs) -- It's a girl thing. Guri (joining Daala and Jade in a group hug) -- I simply can't *believe* that he's being so cruel! Wasn't he supposed to be the HERO of the epic? Piett -- If he was, then he definitely failed "Rushing To The Aid Of Damsels In Distress 101". When they get too inconvenient for him... he abandons them! *This* from the champion of the New Republic? (spits) Palpatine -- One wonders how long it will be before his current object of affection turns to the Dark Side. Vader -- Given my son's track record... six months. Maybe less. Dewey -- In any event, here's the initial motion. Your attorneys can file their response with the offices of the court at any time. Now... Lord Darth Vader? Palpatine (looking puzzled) -- Are you getting divorced too? Vader -- Impossible. I am a widower! What do you want? Dewey -- A friend of mine asked me to drop this off while I was here. It's a notice for intent to file for a custody hearing from Anakin Solo's natural parents, Han Solo and Leia Organa Solo. Palpatine -- Ha! They haven't a leg to stand on! Thrawn -- I wouldn't be quite so confident if I were you. Look at their attorney of record. Tarkin -- Johnnie Cochran? (shudders in revulsion) They're dealing with WHO? Vader -- For alleged Light Side partisans, they are doing a remarkable job of abominable behavior and consorting with the foulest of beasts. Dewey -- Hey, I resemble that remark! I ought to sue you for libel! Palpatine -- Truth is a legal defense against libel. Are you denying the accuracy of that description? Dewey (shrugs) -- You got me there. Anyway, you can file your rebuttal motions with Family Court. I've got to go, I'm due in court in half an hour. (taps a combadge on his lapel pin and beams out) Thrawn -- How's Mara doing? Guri -- The poor girl's completely broken up. We put her to bed. (looks downcast). He sure did a number on her, didn't he? Daala -- No kidding! Pellaeon (rubbing his neck) -- Well, I can't say that the timing wasn't personally convenient for me, but if she's un-Borged now then there goes our entire escape plan! That *bastard*!. If I ever get my hands on him... Thrawn -- I have *definitely* got to work on obtaining some more ysalimiri! Daala -- I guess even Borg nanoprobes can't adapt to an overdose of "Melrose Place". (sighs). Oh well, back to the drawing board... (Suddenly, the viewscreen snaps on to reveal Counselor Troi) (everyone flinches) Piett -- You know, I'd almost rather have to endure Seven of Nine... Troi -- I understand that one of your number is having some marital problems? Thrawn -- Go away. The last thing Mara needs is your namby-pamby empathy taking advantage of her vulnerable emotional state. Tarkin -- Do you really expect us to believe that you honestly care about her emotional well-being? Troi -- Of course I do! I'm a Ship's Counselor! (does her nauseating smiling- warmly-little-mother-of-all-that-lives impression). I care about all of you, really... Vader -- If you TRULY cared, THEN WHY ARE WE LOCKED IN HERE AND TORTURED WITH ALL OF THESE ASININE NEWSGROUP POSTS? Troi (taken back) -- Because... err, because... umm... Thrawn -- Because you're a pack of moral hypocrites? Daala -- Because this whole Redshirt Two nonsense is merely an exercise in brain destruction? Pellaeon -- Because you're worse brainwashers than the Ubiqtorate? Guri -- At least we LABEL our activities! "Interrogation droid". "Penal colony." "Brainwashing." What do they have? Thrawn -- "Ship's Counselor." "Rehabilitation Facility." "Mental Health Center." Troi (getting all huffy) -- Does she wish our services or not? Palpatine (blasts the viewscreen to vapor with Force lightning) -- In a word... no. (Suddenly, another viewscreen snaps on) Thrawn -- Having gotten personally annoyed with us, she has decided to continue the torture. (sneers) Some caring! Piett -- Is it Paul or Elim this time? Pellaeon -- It's an Elim vs. Wayne. Guri -- Oh, those are usually quite entertaining. Put it on! In article <36A026B2.243DEB3E@usa.net>, Elim Garak wrote: > Wayne Poe wrote: > > > > >> Based on incorrect assumptions. > > > > > > From your replies I see that my only incorrect assumption is that you > > > have the brains to understand this argument. > > > > Sorry. The ramblings of idiots with the IQ of baboons escapes me. The > > MACROSCOPIC observed speed of the expansion of the opaque area of the > > gaseous cloud, which has nothing to do with the microscopic particle > > velocities within the cloud, or the velocities of the energetic particles > > at the edge of the cloud which rapidly disperse into vacuum and become > > invisible. > Hmm. So you are apparently saying that part of the vaporized metal for some > reason instantly cooled, and became an extremely cold gas > cloud, and in doing so transferred all of its energy to a few other > molecules. Fascinating! And why, pray tell, did it cool so quickly? Thrawn -- Elim yet again deliberately pretends to misunderstand. Pellaeon -- The cloud is visible in the center because that is where it is densest. The *visible* edges of the cloud are not the *farthest* edges of the cloud, which are indeed spreading outward at approximately the particle speed that Elim so carefully calculated. Daala -- In other words, what we see is not all of what is there. Merely the dense center, whose *apparent* rate of dispersion is not a function of *individual* particle velocity but of *average* decrease in cloud density over time. > Also there is another interesting thing. The bolts appear to be pretty long, > and pretty slow. That means that some of the gas that we saw > was already cool and moving away from the explosion sight while a lot of the > energy was still being emitted. Thrawn -- Example. A common teapot. Is the steam invisible because of how fast the water molecules are moving? No. Why? Because while individual molecules rush out at high speed, the average cloud density remains fairly constant due to... Pellaeon -- Don't tell him. It'll be amusing to see how long it takes him to figure it out on his own. Daala -- You got a few eons, Pelly? (grins wickedly) > So apparently, most of molecules that were accelerated after the gas cloud > was created went right through the cloud without giving it any energy. That > is almost like saying that after the DS reactor detonated, parts of it shot > out through the hull, while the DS remained mostly intact. Guri -- What the HELL is he trying to say here? Vader -- I have not the faintest idea. Piett -- He's so stupid that he can't even be parodied. > > >> Just ignore what I said and hope no one notices, eh? Another Elim tactic. > > > > > I didn't ignore it, I answered it. > > > > No you didn't. You refuse to accept the fact that you enjoy bashing Wong's > > and Saxton's calculations behind their back, but never attempt to confront > > them directly. Very dishonest. > > Not really. If I won the case against Saxton's calcs here, I would have > presented it to Saxton. Daala -- Did he just admit that he'd lost? Thrawn -- Indeed. If he'd won the case, he'd have tackled Saxton and Wong directly. As is, he's admitted his failure by his continual attempts to go behind their backs. Coward. (Suddenly, a small package beams in next to Thrawn.) Pellaeon -- What's that? Thrawn (unwrapping the box) -- A "Tickle-Me-Noghri" doll... with a knife. How *amusing*. Pellaeon -- Lando again? Thrawn -- Yes. (Thrawn suddenly nails the doll to the table with its own knife.) (sighs warmly) You know, that felt strangely satisfying. Pellaeon -- Any ideas about a return gift? Guri -- How about an armed thermal detonator? Thrawn -- Nonono, this requires something subtle... I'll think on it. > Same with Wong. In fact, I think I will present it to Wong after I've done a > few simulations and fleshed out the calcs a bit. Piett -- We can only hope. Saxton and Wong will stomp this idiot into Bantha fodder. Tarkin -- *Into* Bantha fodder? And what, pray tell, is he now? Pellaeon -- *Used* Bantha fodder. (grins) > > >> Nope. > > > > > > Are you seriously saying that there was surrounding air in ANH around > > > the DS that slowed the gases down?? > > > > You seem to think the visible edge of the opaque portion of the cloud is > > the highest particle velocity in the cloud. > > And you seem to think that some of the molecules (all apparently at the same > temperature, since the density of the cloud appears to be more or less > uniform) for some reason slowed down, and started moving really slowly. > Where did all of their energy go? Daala -- Collisions with other particles, perhaps? Gravitational losses? Vectors that are not linearly away from the center of dispersion? Thermodynamic losses? Pellaeon -- Does anyone have a copy of "Physics for Dummies"? > > More scientifically ignorant > > stupidity from you. Wong has told me you once admitted that you know about > > math but not science, so you simply find equations,plug in numbers, and as > > long as the units work out, you figure you have scientific validity. > > Not really, but almost. Palpatine -- He can't even do denial properly. He wouldn't survive a day in Imperial politics. Thrawn -- Or even 20th-century Earth politics. Vader -- Where's Anakin? He's been remarkably quiet... Palpatine -- Not *that* gag again! Daala -- It's all right. Anakin's watching Mara. > I do take equations and plug in the numbers, but I > also always do research. Tarkin -- ... with an Ouija board and a Scrabble set. Thrawn -- ... a bottle of Romulan ale and a dart board. Daala -- ... a crack pipe and a lava lamp. > > The microscopic particle velocity of a gas cloud, even one that is > > expanding in vacuum from pressure shock, is still far higher than the > > expanding edge of the opaque portion of that cloud. In vacuum, it will > > rapidly expand but not at its microscopic particle velocity! The only way > > it would expand at its microscopic particle density is if all of its > > particles suddenly decide to start moving in the same direction: outward > > from a central point. The chance of that happening is so utterly > > insignificant that it is not worth calculating. > > You are right, of course, Tarkin -- If only he'd stopped there. > but to suggest that a large group of particles > suddenly decided to slow down and move really slowly is also > idiotic. Thrawn -- A good thing that isn't what Wayne was saying, then. > *All* of the particles moving outward would have nothing to slow > them down, Vader -- Except each other, gravitational losses... > and so would continue to move forward until they hit > some kind of object - Thrawn -- So near, and yet so far... > like the DS on one side. On the other side, however, > they have absolutely nothing to stop them, therefore all of them > should move outward at around the same average speed. > > Otherwise we should see instant appearance of relatively diffuse cloud edge, > as soon as the bolts hit the DS hull. We shouldn't see any kind of boundary > between the gas cloud and its surroundings. Daala -- He's hopeless. Somebody send him the chapter on gaseous physics and thermodynamic losses and just put an end to him. > > >> I guess you forgot where the cloud came from..... > > > > > > You mean the DS?!?!?!? > > > > Yes. You know, the thing that the vapor cloud is issuing from, and the > > thing that projects a gravity well equal to that of a natural body many > > times its size? > > What the hell does it have to do with the gas cloud moving away from it? How > is it affecting it (besides the minute, , and irrelevant gravitational > effect)? Thrawn -- Notice how he absolutely fails to provide any math to back up his assumption. > > > This reply means one of two things - either you are much, much dumber > > > than I at first suspected, or this is a herring so red, it could be used > > > as a communist flag. > > > > No, this proves that you bulldoze ahead with your idiotic assumption, > > while turning a blind eye to the obvious because it will undermine your > > findings. And that you're an incredible idiot. It has just NEVER occurred > > to you that the particles in the cloud have random velocities going in all > > directions, has it? Wong even POINTED IT OUT FOR YOU, but apparently that > > isn't enough information. Do you know how many people laugh at you and > > your "calculatins" on this NG? > > Exactly the same number as there are idiots who know and understand nothing > about the subject. Daala -- Yup, that's "Elim-math" all right... where the # of people who laugh at him (everyone) is the exact same number of people who are idiots and know nothing about the subject. (Elim himself.) Thrawn -- Is he aware that Curtis Saxton is an astrophysicist? And that Mike Wong is a graduate student in engineering? > > We love it when you stand up and make a > > scientific statement (without any actual scientific knowledge, of course) > > that is COMPLETELY WRONG. It's more funny than when you just plug bad > > numbers into a scientific equation because any high-school science teacher > > could correct you. You'd be right if all the particles in the gas cloud > > decided to get together, hold a meeting, and all move outward from a > > central point- unfortunately, meetings like that don't happen in real gas > > clouds. The particles are moving in random directions- at any given time, > > only a small fraction of them are actually moving directly outward. > > Actually no. Most of them should move outward. Think about it. They begin > at an explosion point. At one small point. Palpatine -- Yet again, he fails to watch the movies. Pellaeon (sigh) -- *Multiple* impact points, Elim. Skywalker's... (Mara quietly sobs in the corner) Daala (whispering) -- Better watch out with that name, Pelly. Pellaeon (blushes) -- Sorry. Err... Red Five's strafing run on the Death Star was precisely that... a *strafing* run. Multiple shots fired. > From there they achieve great velocities - however, they all *have* to move > away from the point, because that's where they came from, and there is nothing > to turn them around. Thrawn -- Except, of course, the clouds of vapor expanding outward from different points of impact, which will intersect the other clouds etc. > There are no object from which they can bounce back to the point. Therefore > all of them should move away from the point. > > There is a very good, and available example. Look at real explosions (on TV > or not - just as long as they are really explosions and not computer > simulations) and try to count how many pieces of Debra fly toward the blast > point instead of away. Thrawn -- Single explosions vs. multiple nearby explosions. Has he never heard of destructive interference? > > The small fraction that ARE moving outward will not be visible- it is the > > bulk expansion of the densest part of the cloud that you can see onscreen, > > not the movement of the ENTIRE cloud. I honestly can't believe that any > > human would say what you said above and still be capable of tying his own > > shoes without pictographic instructions > > And I seriously can't believe that you think that if a grenade explodes near > you, all of its fragments will fly outward at a small speed, and some of the > dust around it will actually fly toward the explosion. Tell you what - if > you really believe that, try it, and tell me how it goes. OK? Daala -- Gladly! Why don't you sit here and watch the grenade for me while I detonate it? That's right, come closer... closer... > > (but then again, this is the same > > guy who once claimed that when a howitzer shell hits a walker, all of its > > kinetic energy will convert into gravitational potential energy rather > > than the thermal energy and metallic deformation energy that we have > > observed in every howitzer shell impact since the dawn of modern warfare). > > Well, yes, that was a very big mistake. Tarkin -- His biggest mistake was opening his mouth. > For some reason Daala -- Drugs. Pellaeon -- Fanaticism. Tarkin -- Ignorance. Vader -- Stupidity. Thrawn -- All of the above. > I decided to use KE, instead of impulse. Sorry. Guri -- Sorriest-looking mess I've ever seen... > :P But this is not the case. Thrawn -- No, you were even *stupider* today. > > The amount of light being released by a gas is dependent on temperature > > and density. > > Not only - it also depends on the light frequency, gas composition, and stuff > like that. Daala -- "and stuff like that." If one of my scientists ever submitted a proof that incomplete, I'd stuff him into the reactor core! Pellaeon -- I'd help push him in. Palpatine -- Scientific accuracy, thy name is NOT Elim. > > The densest, hottest central part of the cloud will be > > brightest, and the visibility of the cloud will drop as you move away from > > the center. The fastest- moving portion of the cloud (the part that you > > think you are measuring) will always be invisible because the density of > > the cloud drops exponentially as you move away from its center. > > Hmm. Didn't look that way to me. Guri -- OF course it didn't. Elim can't see anything he doesn't want to see, even if you taped his eyelids open. Piett -- He's like Paul and the asteroid calcs. Thrawn -- Wayne just explained in detail why Elim *couldn't see* the edge of the cloud, and Elim's response is "Didn't look that way to me?" Can he not see the inherent illogic of such a statement? Tarkin -- Of course one cannot see the not visible, Elim. That is why it's called "not visible". Palpatine -- Coming up on the end of the episode. Has Anakin done anything cute yet? Thrawn -- Not necessary. This episode focused more on serious melodrama. Pellaeon -- Agreed. Piett -- What about Needa? Thrawn -- I think we'd better hold off on that for a while. Continual on- screen executions might be used against us in Family Court. Palpatine -- So, that's a wrap then? Thrawn -- Might as well. We can wrap up the continuing plot threads next week. Vader -- Decided on your present yet? Thrawn -- No. Needa -- Well, at least I get to live this episode. Whew! (The screen fades to black) (Suddenly, a man is heard choking and collapsing to the ground) Vader (whispering) -- Apology accepted, Captain Needa. Thrawn -- Well, at least he waited until we were *off*-screen this time...