From: "Chuckg" Subject: [IST3K] Re: ST is better, More of Piett's ranting. ------------------------------------------------------------------ On board the Federation satellite Redshirt Two Thrawn -- ... OK, can we stick to the *script* this time, people? Jade -- Why? Ad-libbing worked so well last week. Daala -- You weren't even *here* last week, Jade. Sheesh Jade -- But I saw the instant rating #'s... Guri -- Oh, so *that's* why you crawled back here so quickly all of a sudden? Noticed which show was getting the better #'s? All of a sudden you wanna kiss and make up? Tarkin -- Enough! This bickering is pointless! Vader -- Haven't you said that before? (the viewscreen snaps on. Seven of Nine is standing there in all of her, ahem, "glory".) Piett -- Oof! Those *can't* be real, can they? Daala -- Pelly, if you even *think* it I'm going to slap your face off. (Pellaeon winces and averts his gaze) Jade -- Disgusting cow! Guri -- Yes, but she looks so much like you... Jade -- (screeching) WHAT? Seven -- Prepare yourselves to receive an incoming communication from Paul Jacques. Jade -- Aaaah, receive this! (tosses her lightsaber into the viewscreen) (CRASH!) Needa -- What'd you have to go and do THAT for? She looked great! Piett (wincing in disgust and checking his watch) -- Well, it didn't take long for Needa to say something stupid *this* week. Needa -- (aaaaaaggggggghhhhhhhhh!) Vader -- Apology accepted, Captain Needa... hey, wait a minute! I didn't do it yet! Jade -- You're not the *only* one with Force skills, Lord Vader. (Vader looks darkly at Jade) -- It seems almost like poaching, somehow. (Seven of Nine and Janeway appear on alternate viewscreen) Janeway -- You killed Kenny! You *bastards*! Tarkin -- Why, do you want him? You can *have* him! PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ... >Andrew Muir (lgpiett@hotmail.com) wrote: >> Weee, more of Paul's bullshit. > >More ranting from the PA'TAK! Piett -- He's still misspelling it. >> PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message >> <_c0n2.11919$dB4.373500@carnaval.risq.qc.ca>... >> >Andrew Muir (lgpiett@hotmail.com) wrote: >> >> >> >> > Okay take into consideration a Sovreign class vessel vs an ISD or >> >> > ImpStar Duce, I think that the Enterprise-E could take out either of these >> >> > ships, >> >> >> >> Incorrect. If you look at the figures we have, you'll see that a >> >> Sovereign-class ship would have its hands full with a VSD from SW. SW >> >> weaponry is an order of magnitude stronger than ST weaponry. >> > >> >I don't think so! A fighter destroyed the DS in ANH. >> >> Has nothing to do with weapon power. > >The original thread said: 'pretty fair fight actually'. Thrawn -- Didn't Paul say that himself? Isn't he merely trying to puff up his own weak arguments with a self-referential absurdity here? Piett -- I have no clear recollection if he did say it or not. It's been such a long time... Tarkin -- Quit sounding like a subpoenaed White House staffer, Admiral. >So maneuverability is an important factor in a fight between ships. Pellaeon -- As are firepower, shield strengths, personnel quality... Daala -- Typical of Paul to focus only on one of the many elements of warfare to the exclusion of all else. Reductio ad absurdum -- If maneuverability alone won battles, a single Z-95 snub fighter could defeat the _Executor_. Which it obviously cannot. >> >So a torpedo sent by the Enterprise-E in the exhaust port would do the >> >same. >> >> Incorrect. The port is only 2m, and the torpedo is much larger after it is >> fired. It'd impact on the surface. > >Remember! Runabouts have mini torpedos. So if the opening is as small >as you claim then the Enterprise-D will use them. Vader -- You cannot fit the Enterprise-D in the trench. Tarkin -- You can't even fit a runabout in it. Palpatine -- The second Death Star and any subsequent models that may be built from the same schematics don't even *have* the exhaust port vulnerability anyway. Vader -- Your Majesty? If you are here, then where is Anakin? Palpatine -- What do you mean? I thought you were supposed to watch him today! Vader -- But I thought you were! Guri -- Oh, give me a *break*. Daala -- Men! Thrawn -- We're locked onto this satellite. He can't have gone far. Piett, go and search for him. Piett -- Thank goodness. Now at least I can escape having to read this. >> > The MF manage to escape against several ISDs in TEB. >> >> Has nothing to do with weapon power. > >The original thread said: 'pretty fair fight actually'. So MANEUVERABILITY is >an important factor in a fight betwwen ships. Jade -- Somebody hit the record player, it's stuck. Daala -- Hit *Paul*? Oh can I PLEASE? Pleasepleasepleaseplease? Pellaeon -- Control yourself Dolly. If we could escape from here, then we could possibly hunt him down. As is... Jade -- "Dolly"? "Pelly"? You two are getting positively *nauseating*. Have you applied for married quarters yet? Daala (snickering) -- Do I detect a little *jealousy* there? What's the matter, Mara, your little hubby-poo stepping out on you *again*? Which relative of his was it this time? Jade -- (screeching) Why you miserable catty little...! (leaps out of her chair and reaches for her lightsaber... only to realize that it's still stuck in the viewscreen she threw it at) Daala -- Lose something? (Leaps out of her chair at the surprised Jade and they start rolling across the floor clawing at each other.) Palpatine -- (chuckling) Well *this* episode proves to be quite entertaining... Tarkin -- I suppose it's a good thing that young Anakin *isn't* here at present. Pellaeon -- Grand Moff, I don't care if I'm outranked or not... if you make one 'mud wrestling' joke about my fiancee I'm going to deck you! Vader -- Fiancee? When did you two get engaged? And why were we not given wedding invitations? Pellaeon -- We had hoped to keep it a secret until...oh no! (Jade is currently sitting on the small of Daala's back with her in a full nelson) Jade -- What was that you were saying about my love life, "Dolly"? (snarls) Daala -- I... I was saying... (cough) Jade -- What was that? Daala -- Let... let me breathe... (Jade loosens up a little) Daala (gasping) -- That's better. As I was saying... Guri, override code Lambda Two-Four-Seven! (Guri immediately leaps from her seat, hoists Jade clear of the ground by her ponytail and immediately proceeds to start bouncing her off all four walls AND the ceiling) Jade -- Ouch! Oh! AGH! AGGGGGHHHH! EEEEEEEEEE-YOUCH! (wham bam thud wham whack pound pound pound) Daala (wearily) -- Didn't spend all those years running the Empire's most advanced research facility without learning a *few* tricks... (pound pound pound whack crunch ka-blammo) Pellaeon -- So *that's* why you lobbied so hard for Guri to join the cast! (bam bam bounce bounce bounce bend twist slam crunch.. oh no, the body slam! Body slam! DOUBLE SUPLEX!) Daala -- Force skills vs. Prince Xizor's most advanced assassin droid. (giggle) I didn't *think* so... (Guri finishes slamming Jade around like a red-headed stepchild *grin* and returns to her seat) Guri (grinning wickedly) -- Not too many snappy lines for me in this episode, either... but I did so enjoy the chance to *hit* something. Thanks, Daala. Daala -- Any time. (they shake hands) >> So the >> >Defiant could do the same. >> >> Incredibly incorrect leap of faith. The Defiant is 5 times the length of >> the Falcon. The Defiant has ST shields and weaponry, which won't stand up >> to their SW counterparts. Piett (returning) -- No sign of Anakin, my Lord... !!!! What on Coruscant happened to Jade? Pellaeon (grinning) -- Guri happened. Piett -- You mean she *belted* her, and I *missed* it? Oooooo, I'm so depressed... Vader -- Anakin's safety is paramount. I will go and search myself... *Captain* Piett. Piett (wincing) -- He doesn't take frustration well, does he? Pellaeon -- What are you complaining for? You're still using oxygen! You know how he *usually* demotes people! >That is dumb! We know the Enterprise-D is 600 m. We know also the orginal >Enterprise is 8 times smaller than the Enterprise-D. That puts it at: 75m. Palpatine -- This is growing unamusing. Can he not think up some *original* lies to entertain us? Thrawn -- Instead of the same old tired routine? As we all know, the original Enterprise was several hundred meters long. Daala -- Square-cube law. One-eighth the *volume* translates out to half the *size* in all three dimensions. Pellaeon -- Don't confuse him with actual mathematics, dear. His head might explode. Guri -- You make that sound like a *bad* thing! >We know from ST:2 that the Reliant is a bit smaller than the original >Enterprise. We know also in 'Sacrifice of an Angel' that the Defiant is >about the same size as the Reliant class ships. So this puts the >Defiant at 75 m, at least. Thrawn -- I notice how Paul has deliberately ignored the DS9 Technical Manual, which if I am not mistaken gives exact size data on _Defiant_ class vessels. > Beside speculation based on dubious evidence Daala -- Translation: I'm ignoring anything I want to ignore regardless of its truth. >where is the proof that the Defiant shield and weaponry won't stand up? Piett -- Who does he think he's fooling? The asteroid calcs are unassailable. >> A small rebels fleet prevailed against >> >the DS2, SSD and the ISDs in ROJ. Therefore a Federation fleet using >> >warp and torpedos could do the same. >> >> ROTFLMAO! Thats the worst i've heard from you yet. You see, sadly Paul, >> your "logic" is entirely rhetoric based, and doesn't take into account >> things like "weapons strength", or "battle plans". > >Let see! 'WEAPONS STRENGTH'... If we combine the entire fire power >of the DS2+SSD+ISDs and compare it to the combine fire power of >the rebel fleet. Then it is obvious that the Empire has superior >fire power. The DS2 alone overrides all the rebel fleet in power. >If we do the same for ANH. DS1 fire power compare to the 30 rebel >fighters fire power. The result is the same. In both cases the >Empire has superior WEAPONS STRENGHT. But if we use this as >a benchmark to compare the outcome of a fight then the EVIDENCE >shows that each time the Empire has superior fire power it >loses. (the cast falls on the ground rolling with laughter) Thrawn (gasping) -- Let... let me try that again. Did he just say that because the Empire has lost to inferior firepower twice, that means that *all* fleets with superior firepower *everywhere* in both universes are destined to lose at *all* times? Pellaeon (still chuckling) -- I haven't heard that ridiculous a failure of logic since the last time I listed to those old "Voice Of The Alliance" propaganda broadcasts on subspace radio. Tarkin -- You listened to *what*? Pellaeon -- It was strictly under orders! >> >> > Okay on the issue of the borg vs the empire? The Borg would win. I'm >> >> > sorry but the Borg can adapt to anything >> >> >> >> No, they can't. They can't adapt to raw power, >> > >> >That is FALSE. In best of both worlds the Enterprise-D funelled the >> >warp core energy to the main deflector dish. >> >> They adapted because Picard already KNEW about it, dumbass. And the power >> isn't nearly as high as you suggest - in fact, 30% of it decays into useless >> pions and subatmoic garbage. Meaning you'd have only 3E18 joules of the >> original 1E19. And THAT is before the energy goes anywhere else - Data was >> referring to the reaction going on within the Chamber at that time. Because >> a Starship is incapable of funneling anything other than small amounts of >> power to anywhere but the warp core, the systems designed around the >> deflector array would NOT be 3E18 joules. They'd be much, much lower, >> consistent with other power distribution systems. ONLY the Warp Nacelles >> can handle that much energy. The amount coming out to the Cube would've >> been the maximum amount of energy the deflector array could handle. > >It doesn't matter how much you want to rate the power output of the >warp core. The fact REMAINS that the Borg did adapt to raw power. Daala -- But HOW much raw power? Tarkin -- Could they adapt to 10^38 power joules? Thrawn -- I wonder if he'll even recognize where that figure is from. >So claiming they can't is opinion and not fact. > >> Taking the 'True Q' >> >statement: 12.75 Billion of Gigawatts. That represents 12,750,000 TW >> >of raw power that was sent to the Borg ship. Not a scratch on the cube. >> >The cube received the equivalent of 3036 megatons per second. >> >So they CAN adapt to raw power. >> >> No, they can't. Watch "Scorpion" before you go shooting your mouth off. >> Look at Species 8472. > >Species 8472 can combine their ships and destroy a planet. So it is >obvious that their raw power is superior to what the Borg can take. Guri (LOL) -- He just shot himself in the foot AGAIN! Palpatine -- The Death Star can destroy a world. If you can destroy a world, then you can easily destroy the Borg... *according to Paul's own statement*. Piett -- I love it when he does our work for us. Daala -- Didn't he just say above that the Borg can adapt to raw power? With no qualifiers? Pellaeon -- You mean when he went "That is FALSE.."? Yes. It only took him what, two posts to contradict himself? Piett -- He actually lasted two hole posts before...? He's slowing down. >That doesn't neglect the fact that up to a certain level Thrawn -- Which we can *easily* exceed. >the Borg can adapt to raw power. Proof:'Best of both world'. Thrawn -- The Borg could kill us in only one way. Boring us to death. Tarkin -- I understand quite a few Star Trek fans have already died of that cause. Palpatine -- Not enough of them. >> >> and they can't adapt to >> >> kinetic energy - as evidenced in "Scorpion" and First Contact. >> > >> >You're right about no evidence. But the Borg did scan the >> >Enterprise-D's technology. We know that the Enterprise-D has >> >kinetic shield. So if it is needed then the Borg will make it. >> >> Bullshit - where was their KE shield in First Contact? In "Scorpion", when >> the debris from the planet destroys the two cubes? It wasn't there; it >> doesn't exist. > >If we use the same ST-THOMAS logic, Thrawn -- Notice how he completely fails to disagree with this very simple fact... if Borg cubes cannot survive impacts with planetary debris, then their kinetic shielding technology is visibly deficient. Pellaeon -- Or nonexistent. > then I can claim several things like: Palpatine -- (sigh) Perhaps this will be at least somewhat amusing. >a) The Empire can't mobilize more than 25 capital ships for a >confrontation against an enemy. Proof: ROJ. We haven't seen more >than 25 captial ships in an important fight against the rebels. (Piett replays a tape of ROTJ) "Admiral! I have eighty ships in sector [...]" -- unnamed Rebel bridge officer on Ackbar's flagship. Tarkin -- Yet again, Paul displays his *total* ignorance of the SW movie canon. Thrawn -- Let alone the novels. The _Katana_ fleet was significantly more than twenty-five ships. Daala -- Hell, *I* could muster more ships in one place than that, even in the latter days of the warlords. >Therefore based on the ST-THOMAS logic the Empire can't. > >b) The guns (not the Superlaser) of both DSs haven't been used >against capital ships. Piett (ROTFL) -- How many times is he going to make an absolute ass of himself? Daala -- Every time he opens his mouth? WATCH THE MOVIES, PAUL! Pellaeon -- Preferably while *conscious* this time. Palpatine -- I have this *lovely* image of a Mon Calamari cruiser being destroyed by the second Death Star's superlaser. Or perhaps that Nebulon-B frigate. Or perhaps he'd prefer this screenshot... Piett -- Indeed. We got more than a few of them at (quickly looks around for Vader, who is absent) Endor before the DSII, errrr,... Palpatine -- Exploded. (shrugs). It was inevitable, it was in the script. >Therefore, based on the ST-THOMAS logic >they don't work against them. > >c) The Empire can't catch people running away from them. Since >they didn't get the droids in ANH and didn't get the MF in >TESB and stormstroopers didn't get Leia in ROJ, on the Ewok's planet. >Therefore based on the ST-THOMAS logic they can't catch >people running away. Tarkin -- They caught Leia on board the _Tantive IV_. So even his attempt to be ridiculous still had a hole in it. Couldn't he have rigged an example that actually worked for him? Piett -- Amazing. Not only does he fail miserably at rational logic, even his *irrational* logic doesn't work. Daala -- How pathetic do you have to be if you can't even be successful as an *idiot*? This fool could bust out at sabacc even if he had the skifter deck! Pellaeon -- He's the only form of life known that's dumber than Borg drones. Tarkin -- What about monkeys? Thrawn -- Primates are *definitely* smarter than Borg drones. Read the tactical analyses sometime, they're quite interesting. >> >If they are so stupid then how come thousand to millions of worlds have >> >been assimilated. >> >> Ever heard of "overwhelming numerical superiority"? That is how the Borg >> operate. They throw cube after cube, drone after drone at you. They also >> suffer huge casualties because of it. Their ground combat tactics resemble >> that of WW1 soldiers - get up, walk quickly toward the target in open ground >> with no cover. Their starship tactics resemble stupidity personified - sit >> there and take punishment from all sides. > >Wow! that primitive tactic works??? So how come the Empire didn't do >the same with their TFs in ANH against the rebels? Tarkin -- The same reason the Borg didn't use it against the Enterprise-E in "First Contact". *Confined spaces.* Pellaeon -- He simply can't grasp the concept that several thousand TIE fighters cannot fit in a trench that was so small that even three TIE fighters trying to maneuver in them eventually collided. >If you consider the Borg stupid and they use overwhelming numerical superiority to win, >when the Empire having overwhelming numerical superiortity don't use >that method to win. Then, the Empire is more dumb than >the Borg. LOL! Thrawn -- Yet another reductio ad absurdum from Paul. Daala -- His arguments hold less water than a colander. Anakin -- What's a colander, Aunt Daala? Guri -- Anakin! Where have you been? We've been worried sick about you! Anakin -- I got bored, so I went out. Daala (snaps bolt upright) -- Out? As in *off of this kriffing station*? How the heck did you do THAT? Anakin -- Well, not *exactly*. I'll show you later Aunt Daala. What's that on the viewscreen? Guri -- A lightsaber? Anakin -- No, no, the *other* viewscreen! Thrawn -- Yet another Paul post. This one was quite boring. (sigh) Even the entertainment in here fails us... Anakin -- So why don't we go beat on that Elim Garak idiot instead? Maybe he's got some fresh material! Palpatine -- A wise choice, young Anakin. Perhaps we shall indeed do that some day. When the time is right. Vader (returning) -- I found no trace of... oh, THERE you are! You and me are *definitely* going to discuss this later, young man! Anakin -- Awwww, grandpa! >> >Contrary to the Empire after a defeat the Borg don't >> >create factions to fight each other. >> >> Oh, but they do - watch "Descent", with Lore's Borg. They were certainly >> going to have to fight the Borg when that situation arose. >Based on the ST-THOMAS logic it didn't happen, Therefore what you stated >is speculation and not fact. Thrawn -- What? That's *it*? Guri -- No weak efforts at a snappy ending? Tarkin -- No laughable attempt at a pithy comeback? Palpatine -- Nothing we can use as a narrative hook? Daala -- He's *really* losing his touch! Piett -- Now what do we do for a zinger ending? Needa's already dead... Vader -- Anakin's can't do something cute, he's grounded... Anakin -- GROUNDED? Just for walking around a little? You're almost as bad as my mom! Palpatine -- ANAKIN! Daala -- Where WERE you, anyway? Anakin -- That stupid-looking Seven of Nine person was recharging the energy banks in the lower maintenance bay, so I watched her to see what she was up to. Vader -- You were THAT close to Seven of Nine? But... but... Anakin -- Come on, grandpa, I'm even safer than Guri is! I won't have hormones for *years* yet! But I did manage to scrape up a few little things she left behind when she skinned her knuckles when the wrench slipped... (Anakin holds up a vial of Borg nanites from Seven's bloodstream) Daala (staring in wonder) -- Borg nanites? From Seven? YESSSSS! Do you know what I could do with these?!? Pellaeon (looking at her strangely) -- Turn yourself into a Borg, or at best a stupid half-Borg abomination like Seven herself? Why on Tatooine would anyone want to do THAT? Daala -- But Seven of Nine continually overrides Voyager's most advanced security codes! If we could give one of us her abilities then we could get OUT of here! Vader -- I foresee one fatal flaw. Who would possibly turn themselves into such an abomination merely to set the rest of us free? Imperials are not exactly known for their noble self-sacrifice. (Laughs sarcastically) Palpatine -- If we lack the capacity for self-sacrifice, then I will simply *choose* a sacrifice... Hmm.... (everyone except Thrawn shrinks back) Anakin (pointing at the floor) -- Oh, I think our "volunteer's" right over there Uncle Palpatine! (Suddenly, everyone stops and turns to look at the unconscious Mara Jade) Palpatine (cackling wickedly) -- Oh yes, I am certain that she will serve *very* well... MWAHAHAHAAA! (Cue "Frankenstein" soundtrack, fade to black) -- Chuckg