From: "Chuckg" Subject: My own attempt at IST3000: (was Re: To Micheal Wong, leader of the cult.) Hell with it, I'll take my own stab at Imperial Science Theater 3000. With apologies to the original... PAUL JACQUES H.JR wrote in message ... >Michael Wong (mikwon@sympatico.nospam.ca) wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:57:52 GMT, he791859@merlin.uqam.ca (PAUL >> JACQUES H.JR) wrote: >> >Yes! I am making assumptions, but the goal is this. The logic behind >> >M. Wong denial of the TDIC is based on the fact we didn't see vapor. >> >But I check TESB asteroid vaporization and I didn't see vapor also. >> >So by this logic we should put both calcs out. >> >If we accept one (TESB) then we can't refuse the other. >> >> It's been a long time since I looked in on this newsgroup, but I'm on >> vacation and my boys haven't woken up yet. So, I figured I would drop >> in and see whether the ST debaters have come up with anything useful >> since I last checked. I see that you have not. Too bad- you should try >> LEARNING science rather than continually trying to attack anyone who >> uses it. >> > >REAL STORY: Someone in this NG emailed you because he or she could >not have strong arguments against my points. Jade -- Why should anyone waste strong arguments against *his* points? Even pathetically weak ones are more than he can handle. Thrawn -- Indeed. Using rigorous logic and reason against Paul is like ordering an entire Base-Delta-Zero operation simply to kill one Ewok. Needa -- There's something wrong with massive overkill and Ewok genocide? You and Lord Vader should have sterilized that moon when you had the chance. Piett -- (winces, whispers to the side) Needa, sssh! I thought we'd agreed not to discuss Endor around *him*! You know how sensitive he gets! >> In space, you aren't likely to see vapour when either turbolasers OR >> phasers destroy a small object like a 40m wide asteroid, regardless of >> whether it is vaporized or not. This is because the process occurs in >> space (duh) and the finely dispersed gaseous particles will not emit >> enough EM radiation to be visible. However, in ATMOSPHERE, you will >> definitely see vapour. And when blasters hit things in atmosphere, the >> effects are completely consistent with thermodynamic principles. When >> phasers hit things in atmosphere, the effects are completely >> INCONSISTENT with thermodynamic principles. > >If vapor (gases) doesn't exist in space then what are NEBULAS or GAS >GIANTS. Secondly, some stated here that they saw vapors from the asteroid >in TEBS. Are they liars? Pellaeon -- Note how Paul is utterly unable to tell the phrasing of "can't easily see vapor" from the phrasing "no vapor exists at all." Daala -- Perhaps his mental aberrations are manifesting as some type of dyslexia. Jade -- More likely he's just an idiot. >> That's the difference, although I don't expect you to understand- you >> have repeatedly shown that you approach sci-fi as a religious nut more >> than a rational person. > >I do understand you, I have seen SCIENTIFIC FRAUD before. Piett -- Every time you watch "Next Generation"? >CHARLATANS hiding behind the VIEL OF SCIENCE in order to influence >others with their VIEWS. Thrawn -- Sounds more like "Voyager" to me. Jade -- No, "Voyager" tries to hide its flaws behind Seven of Nine's anatomy. (snort) Thrawn -- Ah. I'd quit watching after the first season. Pellaeon -- You'd lasted that long? >Since you don't have the excuse of not knowing your >science then, Daala -- Wasn't Paul's original mission to try and *discredit* Mike Wong's scientific knowledge? Thrawn -- Indeed it was. Instead, he has merely stated to the world that even in Paul's estimation Mike Wong is a knowledgable man of science. Needa -- Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Piett -- Well you're the expert on that, aren't you? Needa -- Well at least I can fly a Star Destroyer *around* a Death Star, not into it! That entire Battle of Endor was an absolute fiascaaaaccccckkkk.... (gasp, wheeze, rattle, thud) Vader -- Apology accepted, Captain Needa. Piett -- I *told* you not to discuss Endor around him! >why make theories on visual sci-fi special >effects that don't alway agree with reality, Pellaeon -- Just like your posts, Paul? Thrawn -- No. Even at an absolute minimum standard of accuracy, the visual effects will still agree with reality *some* of the time. Paul, on the other hand... Pellaeon -- I take your meaning, sir. >in order to determine the so called power output of fictional ships, and use >those value as BIBLE TRUTH. Daala -- He's bringing religion into a science fiction fan discussion? Pellaeon -- Perhaps its his own particular way of calling upon Q. You know what Celes says about ST fanatics -- "If the facts are against you, argue the logic..." >> >> And you can't use earth's crust in your equation either. >> >> All me know is that >> >> the Founder's planet had equal gravity to earth, >> >> and a mantel that was only 5 >> >> times the size of the crust. >> >> >If I use this logic, which could be valid, then I must do the same >> >for Alderaan. >> >> Yet another scientifically ignorant statement. You're just an endless >> source of ignorance, aren't you? Alderaan's diameter has nothing >> whatsoever to do with Alderaan's gravitational binding energy. >> Alderaan's gravitational binding energy is based purely on mass. If it >> has the same mass, it has the same gravitational binding energy. >> Diameter doesn't enter into it. > >Next time READ prior posts before making STUPID deductions! >Mass is determine by density and volume. What is the volume of >Alderaan and the density of the different layers of that planet? >When was that information stated in the film? >Just because it has an atmosphere doesn't mean it is similar to Earth >in mass. Thrawn -- I take it that it hasn't occurred to him that if the planet can retain an Earthlike atmosphere, its gravity must be within a broad but still rigidly defined range? Jade -- Grand Admiral, I don't think it's occurred to him why the sky is blue yet. Daala -- Just out of curiosity, how do we know that Alderaan's atmosphere was Earthlike? Thrawn -- Leia Organa Solo's ability to breathe the same atmosphere everyone else does without a respirator? >BTW: from are last great conversation. > >Why the beam (the SUPERLASER) of the power you calculated didn't past >through the planet like REAL LIFE LASER do. I can accept from others >reasons like the nature of the beam is different than lasers. But >from you a GREAT scientific mind I DON'T. Daala -- He can *simultaneously* believe that the DS superlaser is or is not a simple coherent-light beam simply depending on who he's talking to at that moment? What is he, schizophrenic? Jade -- Gods above, I hope not! It's bad enough having to deal with only one of him! >Have you reconcicle the power of the Superlaser with its real propeties? >Have also renconcile the power of an ISD with the Dodonna statement? >(With the proof of the number of Empire ships) > >> >I don't agree in space asteroids vapor would be seen. >> >> On what do you base this conclusion? Thermodynamics? I don't see any >> discussion of that. Black-body radiation principles? I don't see any >> discussion of that either. Nope, you base it on the same vast well of >> scientific ignorance from where your other claims spring. I love how >> someone can make a rational, reasoned argument about why something >> will occur and you respond with "oh yeah? Well, I don't believe you!" > >Oh! I see like all FAKES, you mix REAL SCIENCE with SCI-FI SCIENCE >to explains your great FRAUDULENT THEORIES. In SCI-FI, Remember the >maneuvering trusters seen in 'Booby trap' realesed vapor. Remember >'Samaritan Snare' the Enterprise-D realesed vapor in order to >impress stupid aliens who were holding Georgi in hostage. >In REAL LIFE, what are NEBULAS and GAS GIANTS? Pellaeon -- Masses of vapor massive enough to hold themselves together in relatively dense pockets with their own gravitational binding energy, rather than rapidly dispersing into space so thinly that they cease being visible to the naked eye. They are visible due to being dense enough to reflect starlight. Thrawn -- You used words of more than one syllable, Captain. He'll never understand you. Still, a noble effort. >> When vapour disperses into space, its radiating surface area >> skyrockets by many orders of magnitude because instead of being a >> single asteroid or a few blobs of liquid, it becomes a huge number of >> individual atoms. These atoms will quickly radiate their energy into >> space and cool to the point where they are no longer visible, in >> fractions of a second (as we see in TESB). > >Good! you admit that there were no VAPOR. Piett -- Yet again, Paul's mind equates "not visible" with "nonexistent". Jade -- Maybe he's related to that bird the one planet called an "ostrich". You know, "head in the sand" and all that. Daala -- Wrong. I *know* where Paul's head is, and believe me it's not in any sand. >It doesn't matter the >explanation. The fact is NO VAPOR. Therefore NO VAPORIZATION. Vader -- This was written by the same person who was ranting about various varieties of vapor in space earlier on in his post? And now he is claiming that there was no vapor at all? Is he unable to remember his own writings from one minute to the next? Thrawn -- And why should he be any different from the Trek scriptwriters whose end product he so devoutly worships? >So numbers derive from VAPORIZATION are as unadmissible as calcs Daala -- Weren't the asteroid calcs based on the far lower energy requirement for a mere melting, not a vaporization? Jade -- Don't confuse him with facts, his mind is made up. Piett -- Paul has a "mind"? >made on VAPORIZATION on TDIC episode. SO THE ASTEROID CALCS ARE OUT. Pellaeon -- Would now be a good time to remind him about the Gra Ploven ocean vaporization calcs? Jade -- Don't. Next thing you know, he'll be trying to deny the existence of oceans. Vader -- A delusion that could be easily corrected by immersing his head in one... for a very prolonged period of time. Piett -- You'd have to wait and stand in line, my lord. A *long* line. >Also Like you said those atoms will quickly cool to the point of >no longer visible. Thrawn -- And less than three paragraphs ago, he was denying the existence of those atoms entirely. Well, this post is most definitely one for the art collection. Pellaeon -- How can this madman's disjointed rantings possibly be considered art? Thrawn -- If you view life as a theatre of the absurd, he's at center stage. >Since us the viewers can see the speed of the >TL beam reaching the ateroid. Who is by the way in real life >the speed of light. Then we should see the vapor. Daala -- We DO see the vapor, although only briefly! Are you unable to use a freeze-frame button? Jade -- Daala, I don't think he's able to use a doorknob. Daala -- Of course not, they keep outsmarting him. >Unless you are claiming that the asteroid vaporization reaction has a speed superior >than light. > >> This is why the only visible vapours in outer space are in the >> vicinity of radiating bodies which continually keep the vapour in a >> state of excitation, thus adding energy to compensate for the natural >> energy loss of the vapour. Nebulae surrounding black holes or >> supernovae, or coronae of stars all exhibit this behaviour. But >> without an external source to continue exciting the gases, they >> quickly become invisible in outer space. >> >> Perhaps OCCASIONALLY, you should try looking into real science a >> little bit. You just might learn something. >I do, and I make a HUGE DIFFERENCE between sci-fi effects and real >science. Contrary to you! But also, I am not the LEADER OF A CULT. Vader -- Of course not. To be a leader, one must actually have followers. Jade -- Hmpph. He couldn't get a Jawa to follow him into a hardware store. >> >> Also, I believe that on >> >> Wong's page, there is a part about Luke's x-wing shooting at >> >> the Deathstar and causing clouds of what is most likely >> >> vaproized armor to fly into space. This >> >> seems to indicate that SW weapons do use >> >> vaporization and not some sort of NDF >> >> effect. >> >> >If I remember it was near the area where the exhaust was, so >> >it would be normal to see clouds. Not an indication of vaporization. >> >> Simple lie on your part. When you have nothing left, you simply lie, >> eh Paul? This was nowhere near the exhaust port, or even the trench >> itself. > >Oh! the SCIENTIFIC FRAUD calling others liar. (That isn't new, it is a >old technique from SECT LEADERS). Secondly, from all the weapons fire on >ships hull in SW. How come there is not more vapor seen. Pellaeon -- Most of those shots hit shields, not hulls. Thrawn -- All words of one syllable this time. Good! Pellaeon -- Yes, but I'm sure that he still won't get it. >ONE SHOT OF ONE SHIP firing at the DS doesn't prove that all TURBOLASER >FIRE PRODUCE VAPOR. GREAT gathering of evidence! One fire shot out of >thousands and WOW that is the proof. You call yourself an scientist?!? Daala -- I AM a scientist, you buffoon, and the turbolaser strafing run on the Death Star in ANH was one of the very few close-up shots of quad-lasers or turbolasers impacting hullmetal that we ever got! Do you think we have macrobinoculars implanted in our eyes? Jade -- I think his life ambition is to become a Borg drone, so he may well think we do. Daala -- I wish he would get Borged. It would not only improve his personality, it'd up his IQ a hundred points. Jade -- Well, now we have an exact IQ figure for Borg drones. Two. Pellaeon -- Paul scores at a -98 IQ? Impossible! Thrawn -- Indeed. I'd estimate him as at least a -1000. Vader -- I have used my Force skills to evaluate his, err, "mentality". He does not even qualify as a sentient life form. >> >The purpose is not to say that TDIC cals are right. It is to show >> >the bias approach of M. Wong. Refusing the TDIC on the basis of >> >no vaporization of the crust Okay! But the same was done in TESB >> >and the same logic must apply. If not then there is bias. >> >> Vapours quickly become invisible in outer space unless they are >> continually excited by an outside source. The TDIC "vapour" would have >> been in an atmosphere, so the same situation does not apply. But of >> course, I wouldn't expect you to make that sort of logical leap on >> your own- you appear to have the same level of scientific knowledge as >> my three-year-old son. > >Keep your GINGOISM to yourself. The fact is no VAPOR. Daala -- "If I can't see it, it doesn't exist!" Thrawn -- I wonder what happens when he closes his eyes while looking into a mirror? >We seen vapor in sci-fi before. Since there is none, Piett -- We've seen it before, but there is none. I'm starting to get a headache. Jade -- You're only *starting*? Vader -- Have strength, Admiral. This ordeal cannot last forever. >then this means the asteroid were not VAPORIZE like TDIC. Daala -- Did we see any vapor in TDIC? Thrawn -- No. It was all beneath the cloud cover of the planet. Daala -- How the HELL do you destroy 30% of a planet's crust and have no visible effects show up on even Starfleet sensors through ordinary clouds? Thrawn -- You don't. But try telling him that. >As for your son, POOR KID, being rased with a FRAUD. Piett -- "Rased"? Daala -- Maybe he means "razed". Jade -- Maybe he's just crazed. Vader -- I'd like to see him braised... Thrawn -- Enough of this! Lord Vader, release him! Tarkin -- Hey, that's my line! Vader -- Be silent, you are *dead*. Tarkin -- And YOU'RE so alive, "Anakin"? >The only thing I hope is you won't ask all your followers to commit >suicide in order to be taken by the Force. Vader -- If it had only been that easy to convince the Light Side fools to do it... Thrawn -- Instead, you had to use several thousand repetitions of the "lightsaber to the head" trick. Subtle as a lead bat. Vader -- This from the man who was betrayed by his own primitive Noghri bodyguard. Thrawn -- And all of it because *you* had to be sowing your wild oats across half a Galaxy without the faintest concern for proper precautions or family lines! Vader -- (winces) I thought we'd agreed not to discuss *that* topic! >> >It is a valid THEORY. But that is a theory. You can't guaranty the >> >the ISD shield were down. If you try to guaranty that then you are >> >playing a game of bias. That is the difference here. M. Wong would >> >assume your theory as fact. Even though your theory is logical it >> >is not a fact. >> >> And here you demonstrate that you know nothing about the concept of >> scientific theories. A scientific theory is NEVER a fact. It is ALWAYS >> a theory. Einstein's theories are all just theories, not facts; does >> this make them useless? The difference between good theories and bad >> theories is that good theories fit the facts, while bad theories do >> not. > >Theories are just that, POSSIBLE EXPLANATIONS not LAWS. Theories derive >from SCI-FI are figment of you IMAGINATION and not REALITY. >> If a theory is logical and it fits the facts, then it must be accepted >> unless there is a simpler theory which also fits the facts. That is >> how the scientific method works, but again, you obviously don't know >> science from spit. > >My theory that explains every ST inconsistency is Merlin put >a curse of on the ST universe, hundreds of years ago. That curse >is meant to confuse the people. Pellaeon -- I see he entirely ignored the "logical" part and only went for "fits the facts". Thrawn -- Must you really waste valuable breath on expository dialogue about things that are already blindingly obvious? Are you auditioning for a part on "Deep Space Nine"? Pellaeon -- I abase myself, Your Supremacy! It won't happen again! Gharlane of Eddore -- Wrong genre, but I like your style. >DOES THAT BS make it VALID? Jade -- All together now... (chorus) -- NO! >> Let us take YOUR opposing theory, which is that ISD shields are >> incapable of surviving that sort of strike even when they are fully >> charged. How then, would you explain the fact that we saw ISD's taking >> heavy damage in the Battle of Hoth, BEFORE this incident? They >> obviously weren't in top condition when they entered the field. How >> would you explain the fact that all of the other Star Destroyers >> survived? Your theory fails to explain all of these facts, whilst the >> other theory explains them easily. > >ASTEROID FIELD means RANDOM hits by asteroids. Obviously the >ISD was hit by a big asteroid. That asteroid size with his speed >(Kinetic energy) is the maximum power that an ISD can take. If ISDs >could take a lot of punishement from asteroids. A) They would not >fire at them. Piett -- Actually, we were just using the asteroids as an opportunity to train some new gunners. Nothing like a good live-fire exercise to maintain high readiness standards. Vader -- You were a good flag captain, Admiral. Pity about that deflector shield tower. Piett -- My Lord! You actually were able to mention Endor without wincing! This is wonderful! Vader -- *Don't push it*, Admiral. >B) They would past through the asteroid field with >their shield on, because the Kinetic shield would make the asteroid >bounce on those shields, without being a menace to the ISD. > >> >So using logic none of the episodes can determinte the true value >> >of the power of the ship. M. Wong puts phasers in the range of >> >30,000 TW. I can put them in the range of 1.68*10^25 W. Based on >> >assumptions and speculations. But accepting one over the other >> >is a matter of choice and not fact. >> >> Wrong. Your theory is based on the assumption that TDIC is canon but >> every other episode is not. A good scientific theory is designed to >> make all of the different data CONSISTENT, rather than throwing almost >> all of it out the window as you do. > >A scientific theory is not based on SPECIAL EFFECTS. Daala -- How are we supposed to collect data points if not by direct observation? Thrawn -- By consulting the little green men that live in his head, apparently. Pellaeon -- I wonder how many of Paul's pro-ST arguments have been based on on-screen evidence... IOW, "special effects"? Jade -- Most of them, if not all. But Paul is no more able to perceive his own double standards than Jabba was able to run a marathon. >Secondly, your >so called consistency failed to explain why the head of the Obsidian >order prepared an attack on the founders home world with ships >that can't have enough fuel to carry the task? Each ship had its >engineer, so how come none of them notice that simple fact? Thrawn -- Because Trek's scriptwriters know less about science than a lobotomized womp-rat does? >How come the SF admiral didn't want Sisko an Co. to interferre on the >basis that Tain's plan had a good chance to succeed. Does this >mean that the engineer in SF were under changelling manipulation? Pellaeon -- As reasonable a theory as any. Jade -- Given some of DS9's scripts, that explanation would probably be *more* reasonable than many. >Where is proof of that? > >> My theory is designed to do this, with the NDF chain reaction (which, >> by the way, is explicitly referenced in BOTH technical manuals). Your >> theory fails to explain away the inconsistencies, therefore it fails >> as a theory. We are not dealing with dueling assumptions as you seem >> to believe; we are dealing with dueling theories; one of which fits >> the facts while the other one does not. >Your theory failed also! Pellaeon -- Has he ever heard of something called "proof"? Jade -- Hell yes! He files it under "avoid at all costs". >> Firstly, we know that warp cores use matter/antimatter reactions and >> that the entire ship has a mass of roughly 4.5 million tons. This >> means that even if the entire ship was annihilated into energy, it >> would only produce 4E26 joules. Not enough to be consistent with TDIC. > >Well tell that to the Engineers of the fleet and starfleet. They were >all on drugs or something when they concluded that Tain's plan had >a chance to succeed. Since you have no evidence that all those >people didn't know their jobs, Daala -- Their warp cores lose containment and blow up their starship every time they even get nudged, and he's ranting about the infallibility of Starfleet's Engineering Corps? >you can't claim the inconsistensy >theory. They did something that made it possible. What, I don't know? Thrawn -- "I don't know." Truer words were never spoken by Paul. >But my THEORY is with energy you can make more and that must be what >happened in TDIC, because it was a PLANNED ATTACK from month ago. >The 'Defiant' episode showed clues of that PLANNED ATTACK. Piett -- All tactical plans are more infallible than physics? Thrawn -- Even *my* plans aren't *totally* infallible. I'm still annoyed about the first battle of Sluis Van... not resetting the control codes... Pellaeon -- It's not your fault, Grand Admiral. Timothy Zahn made you do it. It was the only to give the damned New Republic their script-driven victory. And your exit line was simply... Thrawn -- (snarls) Zahn has much to answer for! Piett -- You have no idea how much I want to get my hands on Lucas as revenge for that final bridge scene! >Secondly, Based on your logic, the statement by DATA in 'True Q' is >possible 12.75 billions of gigawatts. This would mean that in one >second they use, taking that all matter is converted into energy, >0.156 tons. 337,395 tons in 28 days that is about 12% of the mass >of the ship. Daala -- Am I missing something, or did he just prove *for* us that Data's statement in "True Q" was obviously just another Trek inconsistency? Pellaeon -- He's shooting down his own arguments with astonishing regularity. Maybe if we left him alone long enough, he'd beat himself up. Thrawn -- Excellent strategy. Let's implement it at the first available opportunity. >That could be carried by the ship as energy supply. >Also using 40% of the 12.75 billions of gigawatts, we could >have a phaser beam of 5,100,000 TW or 1.214 Gigatons per second. Jade -- Trivia question: which subsystem on a Galaxy-class starship uses approximately 40% of the power of the warp core after warp propulsion itself? Daala -- (sarcastically) Phasers? (rolls on the floor laughing) Piett -- Shields, of course. >Much more than what an ISD can take. Pellaeon -- What's he going to do, ram us? In *that* slow thing? >> Furthermore, we have seen repeatedly that a starship can only survive >> a fraction of the output of a star. In "Relics", "Redemption Part 2", >> "Descent Part 2", and others, we see that a Federation starship can >> only survive for a limited time near a star, even though it only needs >> to survive a miniscule fraction of a star's output. You are suggesting >> that its phasers are almost equivalent to a star. This is completely >> inconsistent with all of the aforementioned episodes. >> And finally, we know that nothing was vapourized in TDIC because the >> entire process occured in atmosphere and no vapour was visible. >> >> All of these facts contradict your theory but are completely >> consistent with mine. If you want to be taken seriously, rather than >> being insulted as a raving loon every time you open your mouth, come >> up with a consistent theory. > >If we use on screen evidence (chorus) -- BUT ALL ON-SCREEN EVIDENCE IS "JUST SPECIAL EFFECTS' AND DOESN'T COUNT! Thrawn -- The Gospel According To Paul >simple logic. Jade -- Simple logic for simple minds. Thrawn -- Incorrect. Paul possesses neither logic nor a mind. >We have a fighter destroying >a battle station (DS). We have a small fleet destroying a bigger battle >station + a SSD. This means with you consistency theory that smaller >can beat bigger in the SW universe. I am sure that this approach pleases >you. But since it is on screen and being consistent is the game, then >SW will lose againt the Federation just by that. Poor you! all the >hours you spent doing those BIAS analysis for nothing. When the >solution was clear all along. Pellaeon -- What, to hallucinate your way to victory? Daala -- So *that's* why they waste so much power and space hauling around those stupid holodecks! Piett -- As likely an explanation as any. >> >The only logic we can deduce >> >from the two worlds is this. The DS can destroy a planet. >> >The nine combined 8472s ships can do the same. One 8472 ship can >> >destroy a borg cube then the DS beam can destroy the bord cube. >> >A fighter rammed the SSD and cause destruction. A Jem'Hadar ship >> >rammed a GCS and cause destruction. So ships ramming other >> >ships can cause destruction (with no shields). >> >> Or even WITH shields. In "Tears of the prophets", we saw Jem'Hadar >> ships ramming fully shielded Klingon warships and literally tearing >> them in half. No one bothered attempting such shenanigans against an >> Imperial warship until its shields were down. > >We don't need to. The Empire is tactically challenged. Thrawn -- Tactically challenged? Moi? May I be excused for a moment? (Thrawn goes off-screen. In the background, hysterical laughter to the point of pain is heard. Thrawn returns, visibly attempting to regain his composure.) Thrawn -- You didn't... Pellaeon -- No Grand Admiral. I didn't see you let your carefully crafted facade of Imperial dignity slip again. Vader -- Remind me to stop letting you two watch those Mel Brooks movies. > Proven in ANH. Not putting their kinetic shield on the DS or sending their >thousands of Tie fighters against the rebels fleet. In ROJ, a >primitive society contributed to the defeat of the Empire. >That tell a lot about that organization. In 'Specter of the past' >the so called mighty Empire reduce from millions of controlled worlds >to 2000 and also reduce from 25000 ISDs to 200 ISDs. >Just with your consistency approach you CONVINCE me that ST will >defeat the Empire just because it is a dumb organization. > >> Paul, if YOU are the best that the ST side can come up with, then I >> see that I have been completely justified in not bothering with this >> newsgroup lately. Why is it that everyone on the ST side of this >> argument just happens to have zero knowledge of science, while people >> with actual university degrees seem to be on the SW side? Have a nice >> holiday- maybe if you have time, you can go to the library and try >> learning something about real science. >> > >REAl STORY: you can't deal with questions from none belivers. Jade -- Said Paul while looking into a mirror... >You evade, like sect leaders, people that can't show holes in >your statements and theories. You use your GINGOISM Pellaeon -- Gingo? What's that? Thrawn -- Well, "Gingold" was an extract that an ancient Earth comic-book character named Elongated Man drank regularly to gain stretching powers... (everyone looks at Thrawn *very* strangely) Thrawn -- Comic books are art too! I file them under "Graphic Novels". Vader -- The things we never knew about you, Grand Admiral... Thrawn -- Don't *you* start, or I'll publish my expose about what *really* happened with your daughter in that interrogation cell... Vader -- I HAD NO IDEA WE WERE RELATED THEN! Piett -- No wonder she never sends you a Father Day's card. Vader -- (sulk) Tarkin -- (mutters) Try to push me around on my own Death Star, will you? (winks at Thrawn, who winks back) Vader -- Shut UP, you're DEAD! Tarkin -- Whatever you say, "Arkansas"... I mean "Anakin". :-) >and poor evidence gathering backgroup to influence simple minded >followers. Imagine, I am far from the best ST fan Jade -- At last, the truth is out. >and you came out of hidding just for me. So imagine the best ST fan! Pellaeon -- The Anti-Paul? Piett -- Chris Mullane? Vader -- "Plain And Simple" Cronan Thompson? Thrawn -- (coughs wildly) Say WHAT? That does it, I'm calling my literary agent! Hello, Lucianne Goldberg? Vader -- No! No! I take it back! Please, don't... (fade to black) -- Chuckg